# Negative v. Positive numbers in debug panel

**URL:** <https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891>\
**Category:** Core Development\
**Tags:** debug\
**Created:** [8 December 2025 11:01 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891 "2025-12-08T11:01:32Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 15\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![gregorius](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/gregorius/32/73816_2.png) [@gregorius](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/gregorius)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 11:01 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/1 "2025-12-08T11:01:32Z")

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Hi There,

Is there a reason why positive numbers are handled differently than negative number:

![Screen Recording 2025-12-08 at 11.56.54](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/uploads/nodered/original/3X/0/9/09fd7d23e1d2abf0efd616c0b9f24df01361969e.gif)

Here I could still have a negative hexadecimal, a negative date makes no sense. Howabout adding binary and octadecimal represenation to the toggling?

Just wondering whether that would be useful.

Cheers!

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**Author:** ![Steve-Mcl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/steve-mcl/32/4826_2.png) [@Steve-Mcl](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/Steve-Mcl)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 11:37 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/2 "2025-12-08T11:37:05Z")

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> [@gregorius](#):
>
> adding binary and octadecimal represenation to the toggling

+1 from me.

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**Author:** ![TotallyInformation](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/totallyinformation/32/31_2.png) [@TotallyInformation](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/TotallyInformation)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 13:50 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/3 "2025-12-08T13:50:20Z")

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> [@gregorius](#):
>
> Is there a reason why positive numbers are handled differently than negative number

Yes, because a positive number of a certain size could be a Date, a negative number could not (well, probably isn't anyway).

But I agree, it would be better to be consistent.

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**Author:** ![dceejay](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/dceejay/32/38_2.png) [@dceejay](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/dceejay)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 14:03 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/4 "2025-12-08T14:03:58Z")

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for a negative hex number do you assume 16, 32 or 64 bit etc. How many F's do you want 🙂

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**Author:** ![gregorius](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/gregorius/32/73816_2.png) [@gregorius](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/gregorius)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 14:05 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/5 "2025-12-08T14:05:26Z")

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> [@dceejay](#):
>
> for a negative hex number do you assume 16, 32 or 64 bit

"-" + abs(NUM).toHex().toString()

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**Author:** ![gregorius](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/gregorius/32/73816_2.png) [@gregorius](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/gregorius)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 14:08 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/6 "2025-12-08T14:08:34Z")

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> [@TotallyInformation](#):
>
> negative number could not

I'm sure that somewhere, in some obscure corner of someones developer mind, an implementation was created were a negative number are the milliseconds BEFORE epoch - _how do we represent dates before 1.1.1970?_ asked the product manager .... it was late on a Friday evening .... it was dark and stormy ... well the rest is history.

EDIT: Well I guess it was once dark and stormy at IBM 😉

![Screen Recording 2025-12-08 at 15.26.23](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/uploads/nodered/original/3X/c/0/c02627920315ba8e5e315db3ad6c0d83d0be425b.gif)

having commented out a few minor restrictions on integer values .... -1 suddenly becomes 1969-12-31 23:59:59 - for those born before epoch, a happy day! 🙂

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**Author:** ![jbudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@jbudd](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/jbudd)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 14:15 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/7 "2025-12-08T14:15:02Z")

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> [@TotallyInformation](#):
>
> a positive number ... could be a Date, a negative number could not (well, probably isn't anyway).

On September 9, 1947, at 15:45 Eastern Daylight Saving Time, Grace Hopper debugged the Harvard computer.

I think the timestamp for this moment is **-252457650000**  
Or possibly not, since I asked AI to work it out.

It is believed that other things happened prior to 1st Jan 1970 too.

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**Author:** ![Colin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/colin/32/17040_2.png) [@Colin](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/Colin)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 14:36 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/8 "2025-12-08T14:36:04Z")

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If you allow -ve dates, are you not causing the world to end after only half of its intended lifetime.

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**Author:** ![gregorius](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/gregorius/32/73816_2.png) [@gregorius](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/gregorius)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 14:39 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/9 "2025-12-08T14:39:04Z")

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> [@jbudd](#):
>
> -252457650000

![Screen Recording 2025-12-08 at 15.37.00](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/uploads/nodered/original/3X/2/b/2b910f038fa552e39da946e114bc361465f80919.gif)

apparently not.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TotallyInformation](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/totallyinformation/32/31_2.png) [@TotallyInformation](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/TotallyInformation)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 14:47 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/10 "2025-12-08T14:47:38Z")

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> [@jbudd](#):
>
> It is believed that other things happened prior to 1st Jan 1970 too.

No, before that date, everything was in black and white and computers were merely lots of well-trained ants inside a case! 🤣 That's what my kids think anyway.

I did caveat that statement though. Anyway, I did also agree that they should be the same.

> [@Colin](#):
>
> If you allow -ve dates, are you not causing the world to end after only half of its intended lifetime.

I thought the world DID actually end when the first AI was turned on - we are all just a simulation of our previous selves now which is why the world no longer makes any sense! 😉

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![gregorius](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/gregorius/32/73816_2.png) [@gregorius](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/gregorius)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 15:14 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/11 "2025-12-08T15:14:04Z")

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> [@TotallyInformation](#):
>
> we are all just a simulation

couple days ago, there was an article over at HN that physicists just proved that we are not living in a simulation. So in the words of Douglas Adams: "We have reality. I repeat, we have reality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore your own problem."

Anyway got what I wanted - binary & octa:

![Screen Recording 2025-12-08 at 16.03.11](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/uploads/nodered/original/3X/2/0/206286418f2cbca7e9337357524f4fb7e9f471e1.gif)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![jbudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f8ce5/32.png) [@jbudd](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/jbudd)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 15:26 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/12 "2025-12-08T15:26:44Z")

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> [@TotallyInformation](#):
>
> a simulation of our previous selves now

LMFTFY  
a simulation of our previous slaves now

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TotallyInformation](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/totallyinformation/32/31_2.png) [@TotallyInformation](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/TotallyInformation)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 16:49 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/13 "2025-12-08T16:49:09Z")

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> [@gregorius](#):
>
> n article over at HN that physicists just proved that we are not living in a simulation

Ah, but that's what the AI's WANT you to think! 🤣

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![gregorius](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/gregorius/32/73816_2.png) [@gregorius](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/gregorius)\
**Post date:** [8 December 2025 17:14 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/14 "2025-12-08T17:14:38Z")

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> [@TotallyInformation](#):
>
> AI's WANT you to think!

Thin ice, very thin ice ---\> [Roko's basilisk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roko%27s_basilisk) 😉

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/uploads/nodered/original/1X/d073cd938eafa2e558d7c2cd59003b3ef4963033.png) [@system](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2026 17:14 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/negative-v-positive-numbers-in-debug-panel/99891/15 "2026-02-06T17:14:53Z")

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