# 📋 Survey: logging to debug sidebar

**URL:** <https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253>\
**Category:** General\
**Created:** [4 February 2020 11:41 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253 "2020-02-04T11:41:56Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![knolleary](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/knolleary/32/3_2.png) [@knolleary](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/knolleary)\
**Post date:** [4 February 2020 11:41 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/1 "2020-02-04T11:41:56Z")

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Hi,

one of the long-standing quirks of the Function node is that the only way to get a message to appear in the Debug sidebar is to use `node.warn` or `node.error`.

The problem with this approach is it puts what should be debugging comments into the log at warn/error levels. That is not a good thing for systems that monitor warn/error levels and automatically raise alerts when they happen.

The question is: how can we improve this? It isn't a hard problem to solve, but there are a few different ways it _could_ be solved. So I'm interested in the community's feedback on the possible options.

There are three proposals:

1. Use `console.log` to write to the Debug sidebar. JavaScript developers will be familiar with `console.log` and they can already use it today to write to the log output of Node-RED directly. However - that is also why it isn't an ideal choice - it already writes to the stdout of Node-RED outside of the log handling which isn't ideal.

2. Use `node.debug` - we already support the other log levels from within the Function node - but they only appear in the log output if you have the log level set appropriately. The proposal here is to treat `node.debug` as a special case and have that appear in the Debug sidebar regardless of the underlying log level.

3. Introduce a new command, `debug()`, explicitly for the purpose of writing to the Debug sidebar. This would _not_ appear in the log output.

There is a separate idea of adding the ability to control what log levels the Debug sidebar displays, but that is part of a wider review of how you can filter and select what the Debug sidebar shows. The purpose of this post is the very specific question of how to log to Debug from the Function node.

What do you think? Pick an option and vote. If you think there's another option I've missed, please add a comment.

_Poll ([view on site](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/1))_

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**Author:** ![Steve-Mcl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/steve-mcl/32/4826_2.png) [@Steve-Mcl](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/Steve-Mcl)\
**Post date:** [4 February 2020 22:04 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/2 "2020-02-04T22:04:27Z")

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Hi Nick, personally, I'm not a fan of special cases (however it seems I'm in the minority having peaked the survey results 👀 ).

My vote would go to an alternative altogether. Something like...

```auto
sidebar.debug(...);
sidebar.log(...);
sidebar.trace(...);
sidebar.warn(...);
//Etc

```

Or...

```auto
node.sidebar.debug(...);
node.sidebar.log(...);
node.sidebar.trace(...);
node.sidebar.warn(...);
//Etc

```

Or something similar. Just so long as I get to specify the log level.

Having the ability to send debug messages at all standard levels would IMHO make the sidebar a bit more useful (considering future filtering/colourisation etc)

Any good?

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**Author:** ![drmibell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/drmibell/32/8424_2.png) [@drmibell](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/drmibell)\
**Post date:** [5 February 2020 23:49 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/3 "2020-02-05T23:49:49Z")

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I voted for `node.debug()` with reservations. I know Nick asked for a vote, not a discussion, but now that the vote seems to be in, could we explore the issue?

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**Author:** ![Paul-Reed](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/paul-reed/32/66906_2.png) [@Paul-Reed](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/Paul-Reed)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 00:05 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/4 "2020-02-06T00:05:51Z")

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> [@drmibell](#):
>
> could we explore the issue?

Well I supported @Steve-Mcl's suggestion because not everyone would be using this function for debug purposes...  
I appreciate that the Leaders have strong views that the editor is not a dashboard, but using something like `sidebar.log` describes it's use in the widest possible context.  
After all, it is the sidebar, not the debugbar...

Perhaps we should have had a discussion first, then a vote?

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**Author:** ![TotallyInformation](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/totallyinformation/32/31_2.png) [@TotallyInformation](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/TotallyInformation)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 00:46 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/5 "2020-02-06T00:46:24Z")

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My vote was for a simple `debug()` function as being simple for beginners. Using `node.debug()` seems sensible at first sight but I can't say that I particularly like the idea that ordinary output also goes to the log unless I choose to do so. Though I'm fairly ambivalent over all, I'd be reasonably OK with `node.debug()` as well.

Personally, I don't like the idea of a `sidebar` or `node.sidebar` function as I don't believe that the command name actually describes the action. The sidebar is a lot more than the debug sidebar.

If anything a `node.print()` function name would be a lot more in keeping since it is clearly a Node-RED API function and the `print` verb will be familiar to everyone who has programmed in any language in the past but also self-descriptive to non-programmers.

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**Author:** ![drmibell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/drmibell/32/8424_2.png) [@drmibell](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/drmibell)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 03:04 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/6 "2020-02-06T03:04:21Z")

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> [@TotallyInformation](#):
>
> My vote was for a simple `debug()` function as being simple for beginners. Using `node.debug()` seems sensible at first sight but I can't say that I particularly like the idea that ordinary output also goes to the log unless I choose to do so.

I started out thinking along the same lines but reached different conclusions. Beginners looking at the documentation of the `function` node will have already seen `node.send()`, `node.error()`, and `node.warn()`, so `node.debug()` will make sense, and `debug()` might seem odd and different. Since the logging level set in the default `settings.js` file is `info`, the debug output (is that what @TotallyInformation means by "ordinary output"?) will not go to the log unless the user changes the logging level. So `node.debug()` got my vote despite reservations that I'll try to describe in another post.

> [@TotallyInformation](#):
>
> a `node.print()` function name would be a lot more in keeping

Well, yes, but it still leaves the question of whether the output should go only to the debug sidebar or to the logging system as well.

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**Author:** ![Trying\_to\_learn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/trying_to_learn/32/28400_2.png) [@Trying\_to\_learn](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/Trying_to_learn)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 04:43 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/7 "2020-02-06T04:43:16Z")

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I'll stick my hand up only to admit I am not sure I get the entire question.

Though that may make my input _invalid_ I feel it is something of use/interest to all and so needs to be looked at/into.

I use `debug` nodes and in `function` nodes I use `node.warn( )` here and there too to help with seeing what is going on at the developmental stage of a flow.  
As it evolves, those lines are removed as they no longer serve a purpose.

So I am not sure what `console.log` does. Yeah, I should probably look at it before posting here, but.......

I use the _side bar_ (Right side) for `debug` nodes to send their messages, and for `node.warn( )` to send their messages.

Looking at the 4 options:  
1 `console.log`  
2 `node.debug`  
3 `debug`  
3 _something else_

Ok, my _thoughts_: (and my _take_ on what happens)  
Node-Red, when running logs things. I'm not sure what, how or why. But it does as part of what could be called _general operations_.

There are two _extra_ nodes: a `catch` and `status` node.  
These catch any/all errors and `node.status` messages.  
I know that error messages can be created with something like `error.throw( )`, but that's beyond the scope here/now.

Given their _usual_ use, they capture their respective messages and allow user _intervention_.  
Otherwise they are send to the right side panel.

Granted, they could be sent to their own _log_. I'm not up to speed with the standard of how logs are made/used.

But **an** option is:  
`debug` messages - as per statusquo - are sent to the debug window (right side).  
`node.warn( )` messages have an option to be sent to a _message_ log file.

Looking at the supplied _information_ on the `debug` node, the options seem to not be explained too well.  
1 - debug window  
2 - system console  
3 - node status (32 characters)

Ok, 1 and 3 make sense, but 2 isn't explained to people like me.  
What is the _system console_? It isn't really mentioned in the _information_ tab.

Moving on.

So my idea is/may be similar - as I explained.

When a `node.warn( )` happens it is _caught_ there is an option to send that to a log file.  
Thus allowing the user to have individual _logs_ of different _levels/events_.

So there is a `debug` log for all the `debug` messages, a `message` log for any `node.warn( )` messages and (though not a valid name to use) and `error` log for any errors.

Then if I have a problem with a flow/tab/etc, I can put nodes in to capture specific types of data and that is saved to specific files, rather than a general generic log file which then needs to be filtered to extract the _types_ of output desired.

That is my idea. I'm not sure I am really making sense, so I shall leave it there as I think I may (or not) have stated the case and don't, now, want to just talk for the sake of talking.

Thoughts?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kanke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a698b9/32.png) [@kanke](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/kanke)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 05:28 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/8 "2020-02-06T05:28:15Z")

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vote debug(), only to sidebar

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**Author:** ![tilleul](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/tilleul/32/78_2.png) [@tilleul](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/tilleul)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 09:08 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/9 "2020-02-06T09:08:29Z")

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I voted for `debug()` because IMHO, this should be the JS equivalent of the Debug node and propose the same options. Is the current Debug node related to the log level in `settings.js` (I don't think so) ?  
As pointed out by @TotallyInformation, the line will be removed in the end once the debug process is complete ... and also because it's not recommended to send debug messages to the sidebar in production.

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**Author:** ![TotallyInformation](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/totallyinformation/32/31_2.png) [@TotallyInformation](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/TotallyInformation)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 09:34 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/10 "2020-02-06T09:34:01Z")

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> [@drmibell](#):
>
> Well, yes, but it still leaves the question of whether the output should go only to the debug sidebar or to the logging system as well.

`node.print()` I believe would go just to the debug sidebar. After all, many people, particularly non-programmers, won't be necessarily thinking "debug", they just want to _see something_. You could, of course, add an optional parameter that would also copy it to the log & in that case, I think that it should be output with the minimum log level (info?) so that it would always appear.

Print statements are so common in languages that _people start out with_ that the more I think about it, the more I think the idea has some merit. They are also common on C related languages that people may have used on the Arduino (mainly printing to the serial port). So the concept would be familiar to many people. `print` is therefore more inclusive language than `debug`.

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**Author:** ![dceejay](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/dceejay/32/38_2.png) [@dceejay](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/dceejay)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 09:43 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/11 "2020-02-06T09:43:08Z")

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you'll be asking for `node.println()` next ! 😉

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**Author:** ![TotallyInformation](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/totallyinformation/32/31_2.png) [@TotallyInformation](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/TotallyInformation)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 09:51 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/12 "2020-02-06T09:51:10Z")

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Haha, well for once I'm trying to think of the _simplest_ solution - not like me, I know! 🙂

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**Author:** ![Steve-Mcl](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/steve-mcl/32/4826_2.png) [@Steve-Mcl](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/Steve-Mcl)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 11:44 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/13 "2020-02-06T11:44:32Z")

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> [@TotallyInformation](#):
>
> My vote was for a simple `debug()` function as being simple for beginners

The way I think about this is, if simple were the goal, then surely `console.log()` would be the right path (as they will see it time and time again in tutorials and examples).

However, since node-red has built in help (via the side bar) i feel its not unreasonable for them (users) to discover an alternative (as `node.warn()` already is and `debug()` would be).?

On that logic, if there is to be something other than `console.log` / `console.debug` etc, then lets make all of the possibilities available to use and all in a nice familiar fashion.

e.g. `sidebar.log() / .trace() / .warn() / .error() / .info()`  
or  
`RED.log() / .trace() / .warn() / .error() / .info()`  
or  
`node.sidebar.log() / .trace() / .warn() / .error() / .info()`  
or  
`somethingElse.log() / .trace() / .warn() / .error() / .info()`

I am 100% easy on what _that_ it is, just so long as we get the whole gamut of familiar options `log debug trace warn error info` available with (eventually) filtering and colourisation 🙂

* * *

### _devils advocate..._

Since we already have `node.warn` the obvious solution would be to have `node.debug`, `node.log`, `node.info`, etc, etc all send to the sidebar by default but suddenly lots of old projects might start spamming the sidebar

Definitely needs more thought and consideration by more than my limited view 🙂

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![shrickus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/shrickus/32/517_2.png) [@shrickus](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/shrickus)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 16:03 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/14 "2020-02-06T16:03:04Z")

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FWIW, I voted for `node.debug()` since it looks like it would be similar to `node.warn()` and `node.error()` -- but without the colouring

BUT, if I could wave a magic wand... then I would prefer that _nothing changes code-wise_ -- and instead, there would be a new **watch sidebar** (or some such thing).

There are many times that I'd like to see what's happening inside a node, without having to alter my flow by adding/enabling debug nodes. How cool would it be to bring up a "watch" or "x-ray" sidebar, select a node to view, and in real-time see the next input `msg` object, any `node.log()` messages, and the output `msg` object(s). Then, when the following msg is received, it just replaces everything in the sidebar, so no history to wade through like the debug sidebar.

The idea is similar to the browser's dev console Network tab where i can select any 1 request, see all the request headers and inputs, and preview the output data and response headers. For `function` nodes, it might even be possible to show the intermediate variables/values that were created -- making it more obvious where your code logic is failing, without having to embed bunches of `node.log(myvar)` lines...

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TotallyInformation](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/totallyinformation/32/31_2.png) [@TotallyInformation](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/TotallyInformation)\
**Post date:** [6 February 2020 17:55 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/15 "2020-02-06T17:55:27Z")

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> [@Steve-Mcl](#):
>
> console.log()

But the expected output for that would be the `console` not the debug sidebar. Again, this seems confusing to non-programmers I would expect. Also, Node-RED doesn't use console.log directly, indeed many Node.js apps don't log to console and may organisations enforce that with linting.

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**Author:** ![drmibell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/drmibell/32/8424_2.png) [@drmibell](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/drmibell)\
**Post date:** [7 February 2020 20:22 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/16 "2020-02-07T20:22:23Z")

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> [@knolleary](#):
>
> The proposal here is to treat `node.debug` as a special case and have that appear in the Debug sidebar regardless of the underlying log level.

This gave me some concern, but then it seems that `node.warn()` is already a special case: the output appears in the sidebar even if the logging level is set to `error`, so that it does not go to the console. Or am I wrong about this?

[EDIT] Actually, `node.error()` seems to do the same thing. It sends output to the sidebar even when logging is set to `off`.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![knolleary](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/knolleary/32/3_2.png) [@knolleary](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/knolleary)\
**Post date:** [7 February 2020 22:36 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/17 "2020-02-07T22:36:03Z")

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> [@drmibell](#):
>
> This gave me some concern, but then it seems that `node.warn()` is already a special case: the output appears in the sidebar even if the logging level is set to `error` , so that it does not go to the console. Or am I wrong about this?

The log level in the settings file is for the default console log handler.

The debug sidebar uses its own log handler which has its log level set to warn.

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**Author:** ![drmibell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/drmibell/32/8424_2.png) [@drmibell](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/drmibell)\
**Post date:** [7 February 2020 23:15 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/18 "2020-02-07T23:15:43Z")

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> [@knolleary](#):
>
> The debug sidebar uses its own log handler

Are all messages sent to both handlers, or can they be fed separately?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![knolleary](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/knolleary/32/3_2.png) [@knolleary](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/knolleary)\
**Post date:** [7 February 2020 23:26 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/19 "2020-02-07T23:26:03Z")

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Why do you want to know? We're getting into internal implementation details which are irrelevant to the discussion.

(To answer, strictly speaking, there is one log where events are sent. You can have multiple log handlers registered that receive each event as they occur - depending on their log level configuration.)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![drmibell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex026/user_avatar/discourse.nodered.org/drmibell/32/8424_2.png) [@drmibell](https://discourse.nodered.org/u/drmibell)\
**Post date:** [7 February 2020 23:31 UTC](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253/20 "2020-02-07T23:31:30Z")

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> [@knolleary](#):
>
> Why do you want to know?

Because it seemed that some of the "requirements" folks seem to have could be met by just lowering the sidebar log level to `info`.

[Next page](https://discourse.nodered.org/t/survey-logging-to-debug-sidebar/21253.md?page=2)