Hi folks, Continuing the discussion from New smart wifi radiator valves from Shelly Thought it would never happen again, but finally I have ordered a Shelly TRV to experiment. But not quite sure what is the best way to control it. For my other Shelly devices (mostly plug-S) I use MQTT instead of http communication. Because it seems a bit of waste to keep polling, while the Shellies can simply send a message via MQTT for each status change. Since the Shelly TRV's run on battery, I would like to mimimize the traffic as much as possible. So I "think" mqtt again would be adviced more than http requests. However no messages arrive from my TRV in the input topic. And the MQTT broker is configured correctly in the Shelly web interface, because I can open and close the valve via MQTT commands... Does anybody has tips for me that I can try?? [image]New smart wifi radiator valves from Shelly Still experimenting with settings using MQTT @mudwalker: do you have meanwhile become more experienced in using these valves via MQTT? It was very kind of you to share your flow at the time being. In your old flow, you were using http requests to control your valve. Is that still the case, or did you switch to MQTT commands meanwhile perhaps? Thanks!! Bart

[image] Buckskin: From looking at the documentation I think ext_t.enabled bool If temperature correction from external temp sensor is enabled that you can use an external temperature sensor as a control if you wish Yes indeed that was what I was also thinking the first time I read that sentence. However afterwards I read somewhere that this can be used if you have a temperature sensor somewhere in your room, which you want to use instead of the temperature sensor inside the TRV. So it is to measure the temperature inside your room, not outdoors... [image] mudwalker: I am going to try a profile that has events that occur on different days That would be indeed a useful experiment. My confusion is caused because it "feels" to me that Shelly is mixing setpoint profiles (for a single day) with schedules, by the days parameter...

[image] BartButenaers: So it is to measure the temperature inside your room, not outdoors.. But this can be manipulated in Node-red using both internal & external sensors because all the valve is after is a temperature, source is irrelevant. I haven't though through how this can happen but what is required is a value that causes the valve to open or close dependant on the weighting given to each sensor. So, for example, if the room temperature is as scheduled the only action is making sure that the temperature sent to the valve is above the scheduled temperature. However, if the room temperature is below the scheduled temperature then some calculated value, dependent on how far below scheduled temperature it is and what impact you are allowing for the external temperature to have, should be send to the valve.

Just a suggestion: did you consider to drop shelly an email with your findings instead ?

[image] Buckskin: But this can be manipulated in Node-red using both internal & external sensors Yes indeed that might be an option. But I had hoped the Shellies could do this out of the box. They are not really cheap after all... Talking about this, I think I have misinterpreted the "desired temperature" that you can set for a specific timestamp via a profile. Suppose I activate those schedule_rules: "0000-0123456-15" "0700-0123456-20" "0800-0123456-15" That the result will be: [image] I have not had time to install my TRV to test this, but if this is the case then the TRV is less smart as a thought. Which means a profile would be used to set temperatures on the TRV automatically, instead of having to press manually on the physical TRV up/down buttons. Of course then you could indeed measure a temperature sensor via Node-RED, and adjust in the morning the profile before you send it to the TRV. When it is cold outside, you have to move your switchpoints foreward because it will take more time to heaten up the room: [image] The only problem I see is that your Node-RED flow needs to learn how the room's heating time depends on the outside temperature. And to measure that, you need to send frequently requests to the TRV to get the current temperature. And that will drain the TRV battery fast... [image] bakman2: did you consider to drop shelly an email with your findings instead ? That might be a good idea indeed yes, as soon as I have got it up and running...

I put together a very over-the-top flow (based on something totallyInformation said) and get this graph for each of my TRV's. The data is sent by the TRV, and sensor, not requested, when they feel like it (about every 1/2 an hour). The position line is the actual open position of the valve (between 0 - 100%). I have only been running this for the last day (the graph covers 24hrs) so it is too early to tell if I am going to learn anything. (but it was fun doing it) [image] The only problem I see is that your Node-RED flow needs to learn how the room's heating time depends on the outside temperature. This is a problem with any system that tries to anticipate a start time, not only does the TRV need to be trained but so does your boiler. If you do come up with something I bet there are bunches of people who would be interested. The only way I have come up with is to use a lookup table, but it would take a fair while to compile the data required. And to measure that, you need to send frequently requests to the TRV to get the current temperature Just use the temperature from a temperature sensor (I use Aqara zigbee units which seem fairly accurate - sensor in graph)

[image] Buckskin: not only does the TRV need to be trained but so does your boiler. If you do come up with something I bet there are bunches of people who would be interested. Don't want to too much off topic here, but you might ask your question in this discussion.

ext_t.enabled is indeed a temperature sensor external to the Shelly TRV. I use a room sensor I have built from an ESP8266, but of course, as long as the Shelly can see the temperature on the Network, it doesn't care where it comes from. The Profile/Schedule event shows what the desired temperature needs to be at a certain time. I think there may possibly be (distancing myself from this statement) some kind of predictive algorithm for 'thinking forward', but details are distinctly fuzzy as far as I can tell. I am a strong believer that when you have several 'intelligent' items working together, unless they are designed to do so, it is better if they are made dumb and a Co-ordinator used to act as the intelligence. I have always found that intelligent thing are more likely to fight rather than assist each other with no proper integration. I also feel from my experiments that there is enough inertia in the heating system to allow jut on/off operation, which I control with Node-RED. Currently, it doesn't seem to need a Deadband for the Living Room. This would hopefully mean that operation of the TRV uses the least amount of power, so extending lifetime. Basically, I am heading along a path that (I hope) will use the minimum of interaction with the TRV (with maximum control). Load Qty 5 Profiles/Schedules with x events in each to suit what is needed. Schedules can be selected via Node-RED Dashboard. Use of local external temperature sensor (never liked measuring temperature at the point of a heat source, they cross talk too much!) Use Node-RED to also monitor same local temperature and 'drive' the boiler. (I am not a believer in leaving boilers on all the time 'as it is cheaper'. Higher dwelling internal temperatures mean higher losses. But there is a minimum temperature above which a dwelling should be kept to enable a reasonable recovery time after no occupation.) Develop predictive routines to help attain profile desired. (Currently I change Water Tank temperature and Boiler temperature depending upon Outside Temperature - just a straight y=mx + c straight line graph. More complex models can be developed once the 'inertia' of the dwelling is modelled - if you want to go that far.) Doing the heavy lifting in one common place over which you have control is easier than in several other places over which you have no proper control, unless those different systems are designed to operate with each other and you can observe what is going on. Just my tthoughts.

[image] mudwalker: never liked measuring temperature at the point of a heat source, they cross talk too much I see that they also offer an offset setting: TEMPERATURE OFFSET There are two options you can tick to activate - Enable external temperature corrections endpoint http://192.168.207.208/ext_t?temp=measured t° and Enable internal temperature compensation logic. The second feature helps to read the temperature correctly despite the proximity of the heat source. Below that, there is a texbox for you to enter the temperature offset you desire. The Shelly TRV measures the temperature of its immediate environment. For this reason, the Shelly TRV records a temperature slightly higher than the average temperature of your room. Input an offset value so that the Shelly TRV display the accurate, average room temperature. Could this be useful perhaps? [image] mudwalker: FWIW, I am now feeding the TRV schedules in using JSON. It would be nice if you could share your updated flow, so I can "loot" some of your ideas :wink:

There is an article on auto-calibration of TRVs here Your TRV is lying to you: TRV auto-calibration - NotEnoughTech While the TRVs and sensors used are zigbee the concept and ideas are still relevant and could be re-done for the Shellys with no bother. I started looking at this because the TRVs used are the same as I use and there is a whole series of related articles.

Sorry, I am following this thread but we have family visiting so computer time is limited. Yes, I have seen the offset, but whichever way I do things, I am required to interrogate or update the TRV on a regular basis for the current temperature status. My idea is to only communicate with the TRV when I need to change something. If I use the offset, I have to interrogate the TRV to update NR with the Current Temperature, or use the regular status message to see what the temperature is. If I use NR and the external source, I only have to communicate with the TRV when I want to change Open/Close and I hope to be able to reduce the sending of Status Message to conserve power. 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'Assemble message for TRV' removes Colon from the time for the Shelly 'CHtempDesired' is the current temperature desired for the boiler control side of things (OTGW) I will read @Buckskin link, hopefully today, but I have an inkling of what it is going to say. Solving problems with accurate temperature control was part of my role when I was working. This is the reason that I don't have much faith in temperature sensors being linked to the control unit right next to the heat source. Convenient, but not necessarily that accurate. Having said that, my expectations regarding temperature control are very high! Keep asking and challenging, it makes me think! Get this week out of the way and Family commitments drop off to allow more time to 'play'. I want to test the 'Combined Profile' for switching things on/off on different days at different times in the same Profile.

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Use MQTT for Shelly Thermostatic Radiator Valves

Hardware

BartButenaers 28 December 2022 06:57 43

Don't want to too much off topic here, but you might ask your question in this discussion.

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Use MQTT for Shelly Thermostatic Radiator Valves

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